Chapter 38 News

The D.J. Jacobetti Veterans Home in Marquette Michigan

A Little Popcorn can make a big difference

D.J. Jacobetti Veterans Home:  A Little Popcorn can make a big difference. The D.J. Jacobetti Veterans Home in Marquette Michigan announced the need for a […]


New Chapter Name, Expanded Service and Membership Area

June 2013 marks the first month of our new Chapter Name, Expanded Service and Membership Area.  With Ratification of the Chapter changes approved at the […]


New Transportation Network Van

We received our new Transportation Network Van, purchased using your community donations.  The Van will be used to support our area Veterans with transportation to Medical […]


Michigan News

DAV Department of Michigan
DAV Department of MichiganOctober 17th, 2017 at 12:56pm
DAV Department of Michigan
DAV Department of MichiganOctober 17th, 2017 at 12:56pm
DAV Department of Michigan
DAV Department of MichiganOctober 17th, 2017 at 12:56pm
DAV Department of Michigan
DAV Department of MichiganOctober 17th, 2017 at 12:56pm

As a DAV member, you know first hand the power and value of our network — nearly 1.3 million veterans strong and growing. Please use our social share tool below to help spread the word and share why...

Elle Revilo URGENT is there someone who can help a MI VeitNam vet that lives in MI .....PLEASE !!!!!
DAV Department of Michigan
DAV Department of MichiganOctober 17th, 2017 at 12:56pm

National News

DAVOctober 17th, 2017 at 12:56pm

What do you think about eliminating the 30-Day/40-Mile rule?

LaDawna Honeycutt So far my outside rheumatologist seems to be milking the $400 office visits and gives me the run around and keeps making appts with no medical plan or diagnosis, same goes for other outside docs! No one really gives a crap. VA wants to keep their money, outsiders want to benefit from from the ill, all about greed from my experiences.
Tony Patchell What does it matter? They approve something and don’t pay anyway. And you don’t know until you get bugged by collection agencies for thousands of dollars.
Veronica A. Carter How about if VA starts paying the Doctors and other practitioners who take Choice in a timely less than a year? It might go a long way in getting more of them to accept it!
Thomas Murray DC Allowing VA to decide when to refer to outside VA care is giving keys to the henhouse to the foxes. It's about controlling the money. If the federal government has billions for foreign aid - there is plenty for care for ailing veterans. I'm ailing right now because of my service. Millions of us are. Why is there this continued push by VA to go back to the way things were? Follow the money
Richard Leahigh i cant drive very well. have a few kids and a wife that works. but im supposed to drive almost 2 hours to the hospital for a 20 minute eye exam or an ultrasound. then I'm told that it's not a big deal because the satellite clinic (40 min drive btw) has a shuttle to the hospital i can take if I cant drive or have the money for that much gas. So its waste a day and gas money or waste my entire day because it doesn't matter the time of my appointment. i ride up and back on their schedule. but because I am inside the 40 mile of two satellite facilities (mini clinics) I cant see civilian. and im on tricare for life because of my percentages.. .
Bob Foster The choice program is a joke and killing Veterans choices. I never had a problem with getting served outside the VA until they invented this Choice Program, it's a featherbed for politicians family and friends. We need to see Shulkin Trump and his family affair out of office. The secretary of the VA should be a veteran.
June Solla Wish they would return to the Care in the Community and eliminate Choice. And start hiring the specialist that are so desperately needed at the VAMC all over. It's getting harder and harder to get appointments because they do not have enough personnel. How about eliminating some of the money allocated for bombs and stuff and send it to the VA...
Chris Ofsthun This would be a fantastic move. I tried to enroll in the choice program but because I live 12 miles (as the crow flies) from the nearest VA hospital, I couldn't. They didn't care that there is a huge body of water between my house and the VA hospital in Seattle. In the end, I'm still stuck traveling an hour and a half each way to the Seattle VA Hospital because the local Bremerton Clinic does not have room for more patients.
Bill Potter It's just another way the government is finding ways to close the VA Hospitals.And put the care of veterans in outside VA clinics and private sectors.The government administrators like to use words like downsizing,being more efficient, saving money, and providing a better service.In the end the American veteran gets screwed and caught up in a big bureaucrat mess.
Doug Strand The main problem with CHOICE is that it relies on the outside practitioners to be reimbursed by the VA. If the VA doesn’t pay quickly enough, they send the bill to the VET. Fix this before fixing anything else!
Sandi Meyers Hall I have had no problem with my choice care. I live within 40 miles to the nearest clinic but over 40 miles to the nearest hospital. I am a stage 3 breast cancer survivor and still under under the care of my outside VA doctors care. I have not had any bad problems getting my referrals approved and handled correctly. As far I know payment has not been an issue either. I would like to continue my outside VA care without any problems because of my mileage being an issue.
Alvin Wallace I guess I am very blessed. I live 20 minutes from the hospital and I get great care. I had no ideal of the hardships of my fellow veterans traveling to their VA and getting good care.
Bruce Haywood This is the beginning of the end of VA hospitals as we know it. Not a good idea Keep the 40 mile rule. I don't agree with it. Only my opinion.
Mike Lashmett Sneaky move to pave the way to dismantle and privatize VA healthcare via KOCH brothers! A beautiful new sparkling VA clinic sits in Tallahassee, FL with many offices empty and understaffed..... Head of VA should be a veteran. Veterans Choice is a stealth privatization plan to enrich those corporations providing outside care.
Victor James I have been in choice program since April of this year. I had to wait just as long for an appointments as I did with the VA so what good is it. Then the doctor complains that he’s not getting paid.
Linda Buchtel I had been scheduled for appt. 100 mi from my residence, was never offered choice and only got changed to 70 mi from current residence. I hope the new rules will allow more local access. ...Bucky
Jimmy Tiller In a flash, the choice program was turned over to a third party to administer. There went a substantial chunk of choice funds for administering the program. I think the third party was already set before the program was even approved, to financially benefit everybody but veterans. VA already had personnel who could have handled it on board, so why did they farm it out? One more agency to have to deal with to get approved, still another to select doctor, and yet another to make payment. Where is the breakdown of the entire appropriated funds?
Zane Gober horrible rule...veterans should have insurance that allows them to go anywhere they want, rather it is because of a doctor, proximity or program available for their illness.....this is exactly why single pay insurance does not work, they make all the rules and you either follow or you are out of luck...ask any veteran
Dale Foss I get 100% of my healthcare through the VA. I only have Medicare Part A and no other insurance. I have been told I can go anywhere for a medical emergency as long as I let the VA know as soon as possible. Then depending on the emergency, I could be transferred to the nearest VA or be treated there.
Jeff Liles Straight BS ! If not for this rule's existence, then the decision for healthcare would be made for veterans "You go to a VA if you want health care at all !" Many people, including myself, are only getting medical help because of civilian doctors in my community. I tried working with the nearest VA for the 1st 6 months of my retirement. The VA is not in the business of medical care. They are in it for the job security, which is the reason for the VA's proposal to do away with the rule. The VA is a self-serving bureaucracy. Veterans should be able to go to the doctor who helps them, whether a VA doctor or not. And if the VA does not offer well-trained professionals who help, the the veteran should find the help he needs, sending the VA the bill. If the VA decides it cannot afford to have sorry personnel on its payrolls after the veteran has ditched the VA and sent the VA the bill, then the VA is only making the decision to get rid of personnel that it should have made long before submitting this proposal to hem in the veterans.
Mark A. Brogan Choice was too much of a hassle. Provider wouldn't get paid for all visits even though referral had the exact number of treatments to be provided... Seems I hear this from all over. Fix the billing and coding and maybe it'll work. Providers are going to eventually turn Choice people away when they know they arent getting paid.
Peg Jones I've read comments by Vets who live in rural areas who say the Choice program really helped them. My experience has been that the Choice program is a waist of time and money. I only tried to use the program once because I was in a lot of pain and all the program did was cancel my appointment with the VA and schedule an appnt ONE day sooner. The Veteran's Administration Hospitals and Outpatient Care Centers have the best medical professionals in the U.S.A and I prefer their services over any other.
Keith McAllister The 30/40 is bullshit. VA could not get me in to see provider for 45 days sent me to Vet Choice; 6 months later i finally got an appointment. The VA and The Vet choice program is broken and fucked. Nothing be red tape and bullshit.
Michael Turner I think they need to figure out something because the Choice Program stinks in my area and not done the same way across the country. Different rules and even different treatment of caregivers too.
JC Keeth I hope so. I’m tired of paying from my own pocket so I can see my doctors. I like the civilian medical world much better. We should all have a choice to with we prefer & get it paid for.
DAVOctober 17th, 2017 at 12:56pm

What is your stance as a veteran?

Bruce Haywood The very reason I served was for everyone's freedom. If the NFL players feel they have to protest by kneeling than that is their choice
Angela Cooley When I raised my hand I wasn't under the assumption that I had to like what people chose to do with their constitutional rights it was so that they would continue to have them. Whether I approve or not is not the issue. They have the right to kneel or stand I take no offense as a Veteran.
Bryan Fazio As fourth generation military and a proud disabled Post 9/11 Navy veteran my family and I served for our rights not a flag or anthem! There's a reason freedom of speech is the first amendment! I'll kneel with Kapernick before I ever stand with the draft dodging unstable racist tyrant in our White House! Impeach Trump!
Diana Mayo I'm not offended. I didn't join so I could tell people how to feel. I also didn't join so people could tell me how to feel. Non-vets are offended that I'm not offended. 🤷‍♀️ That being said, I think it's ridiculous that people are acting like some super patriot for the cause when, before Trump spoke, they had nothing to say or do about it.
Geoffery Fabian I know I served to protect our constitution rights and freedoms. A country in which you are forced to worship the flag or a song doesn’t sound like freedom to me
Bryan Sutton I defended their right to protest. They are protesting peacefully. How can I object to them exercising a right I defended; no matter how I might feel personally?
Florencio Cruz I’m a 30 year Army vet, twice in nam, I side with the players, their kneeling has nothing to do with disrespect to the anthem or the flag........or the vets....
Adam Nethero The sanctimonious fake patriotism of the NFL would maybe hold more weight if they didn't get paid for it. It took millions of our tax dollars to bribe them into pretending to be patriotic... so now the league wants to pretend that it's some moral authority? I'm not buying it. Besides, it is their right to protest. The constitution protects everyone the same. Besides, this is all just a distraction so that people aren't paying attention to the dumpster fire that is this current administration. We're talking about this and not Puerto Rico, or any other news... it's just another case of Wag the Dog.
Keith Scarberry I don't know who's Constitution they served but I served the US Constitution! Maybe they got drafted and that is the only reason they are veterans? They do have the right to disapprove as does NFL players!
Don Mitchell Any veteran who "lashes out" at this peaceful form of expression might have forgotten why they took the oath. I do not agree with kneeling, but I do NOT find it disrespectful to the Flag or anyone else. I actually find the action to be in keeping with the First Amendment. I can disagree with your actions while at the same time defending your right to take said action.
Doug Baird When we raised our right hands to join the military, we swore an oath to defend the constitution of the United States.... not to defend the flag or to defend the national anthem or to force citizens to swear allegiance. Condemning what the players are doing goes against everything we swore to defend. We fought for freedom from oppression... not to force it.
Charles Cross Whether it's voting, gun ownership or people using the right to peaceful protest I am just glad see people using their rights before we lose them. Use it or lose it!
Amanda Olguin My brother was killed defending the constitution, not a song. I support their right to peaceful protest.
Tim Bryant The flag means different things to different people. I served to defend the Constitution, not the flag. I am troubled by how the vets in the article pick and choose what the flag stands for. One even said he is boycotting the sponsors, yet the military is one of the largest sponsors. The selective thinking makes me wonder about the biases of these individuals. Being all white, and on a "veterans council ", doesn't show much diversity or individuality.
Charlie Whiskey Totally support the players. And, remember, they aren't protesting America, or the flag, or veterans.
Dan Bridges They have the right to protest, the owners have the right to fire them, and I have the right not to watch. I used to watch football for entertainment not for updates on social issues.
Debra Hatley I don't feel disrespect at all from the NFL. I feel disappointed that we are focusing on the anthem, rather than addressing the reason they are kneeling in the first place.
Tony Hartley Either you are for the 1st amendment or you are not! The players have a right to protest when and where they like. No what if's unless you are part of the problem.
Ralph Yourie While serving in the Navy, we could protest anything we wanted as a private citizen, but the UCMJ strictly forbade us from any political action (other than voting) while in uniform or while representing our service. I believe the same rules should apply to all jobs, including football.
Sam Adams Vietnam vet. The First Amendment of our constitution underwrites the right to take a knee and peacefully petition the government for redress of grievance. I fully support this action, as should all Americans.
Jon Terry Paschal This is what is being taught i schools now. It is all about racial divide, I really thought when obama was elected that it was a good thing for this once great nation, but he was the worst thing that could have happened! We are in a more decisive place because of the left and their agenda.
Melissa Thompson Freedom is freedom, when you say you support their right to exercise their first amendment but... you no longer can say you support their rights. The first amendment is afforded to every single American and is absolute, as evidenced by the numerous SC rulings upholding a citizen's right to express them self regardless of how offensive it may be to others, unless it jeopardizes the safety of others. So as a veteran myself, I think it is a slippery slope when we want to dictate how our fellow citizens exercise their rights, especially when this opposition is selective at best.
Hawk Sayers I don't like watching football. I served so that anyone might express themselves as they see fit, especially to fight against injustice. I believe, and have always believed, that since the 1918 World Series the national anthem has been played to honor those who have fallen in previous wars and conflicts. I believe there is a better way to stand against these injustices that will do more good and alienate less people. However, it is their right.
Andy Miller Why aren't they talking about the real issue, that people of color have a different experience with the justice system than white people. As a veteran, it makes me sad to see the misplaced outrage and the divisive behavior of our current Commander-in-Chief. I fully support the 1st Amendment right to peaceful protest no matter how uncomfortable it makes people feel.
Tim Pennington Show respect towards the flag and nation anthem. There are millions of other ways to protest, just ask BLM or ANTIFA. Then NFL should loose all outside funding until they put a stop to this and I will NEVER watch football again.
DAVOctober 17th, 2017 at 12:56pm

Richard is an Air Force veteran, and landing a job after his service is his victory. Watch as he talks about how it felt to become financially independent and live a fulfilled life.

Alfred Austin how do we get the VA to recognize that somethings are related when I retired I was told that I had several types of itises in my joints,thru a nuclear bone density test years later it was noted that I had arthritis in many of my joints thru a rheumatologist at the VA hospital diagnosed me with fibromialgia saying it was related to all the arthritis,but didn't exist when I retired in '95,I claimed arthritis in multiple joints when I retired but was denied,I've been fighting since slowly gaining have gotten some approved but still suffering
Carol Vaughn Bless you, Now they just need to help the Women Vets and men that have struggled for years ! Hopefully Dr. Shulkin will recognize this and also help Reservist Vets !
Melanie Clark I've known Mr Marbes for a few years now and this is the first time I've heard his story. He is an awesome guy!
Hugh Haggerty Thank you for Service to your Country Sir.
Price Jonathan Who payed for all that surgery?
Beth Ann Kinney Glasser Thank you, sir, for your service for our country.
Gail Reeves God bless you you really touched my heart thank you for you service
Minerva Martinez God Bless you Sir🙏🏻
Stan Vess Love you Bro. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!!!!!!!
Art Scott Thank you for your service Sir !!
Claudia Humphreys-Barrow Way yo go Veterans!
LaurynMae Yelsky This guy is great.
Christ Nguyen Sending my prayer....Amen
Harold Butcher Thank you for your service
Dennis Wesley I'm a Life Member myself.
Shirley Prater Thank you Richard!! God bless!!
Patricia G Peake Thank you Sir!!
Joe Stafford Thank you
Rich Ross 🙏🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Norman Wade :(
DAVOctober 17th, 2017 at 12:56pm

All Caregivers of all eras deserve the same benefits. Do you agree?

Shelly Bjerk There are many women that had to give up their jobs, retire early, or not work at all to take care of their vet. We did it willingly , out of love. The 100% pay the vet gets is ok, but when we lose our husband DIC is around half of that amount. It is better than SS, but a cut in pay without a cut in expenses.
Jack Beal DAV drivers should be paid something. If it wasn't for them I couldn't get to my appointments. I have one driver that makes sure I get there when it really matters. He even made sure I got home from from Hosiptal when I could not get a ride home by any other means. And I am going to make sure the DAV knows it and who he is.
Brandon Masangcay all those who suffered major / debilitating injuries in defense of our country should receive all caregiver, DME and services to make their lives vet is better than another.
Jerry Blakely I have reached a stage in my life where I wish I had some one to give me some help but for now I will be okay. Caring for a military veteran is not the easiest thing in the world, so I say YES!
Rick Olson I think it should depend on the vets disabilities and individual needs and everyone should have to meet the same requirements regardless of which era they served. Seems like one caregiver program with several levels of benefit and everyone having to meet each level to be approved would be simpler.
Stanley A. Guerra UBER is super wealthy...let them step up. Why does the American taxpayer send $50 billion on foreign aid plus backs up every 3rd world state and a vet can't get a ride. How screwed up is that.
Terry Hayes While I agree with the sentiment, it should be understood that the current caregiver compensation plan was part of the 2009 Omnibus Bill for certain wounded veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan. The IAVA (Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans Association) did most of the lobbying for the Caregiver Support portion of the bill. I'm a post 9/11 combat veteran who suffers from TBI and PTSD. My wife is paid by VA to be my caregiver. Every caregiver who sacrifices their career to care for their veteran should be compensated. But the IAVA lobbied on behalf of their members.
Carmel Veguilla If it's service connected there should be a caregiver program open to the veteran and caregiver of their choice.
Bill Butler My wife has Champ VA and Medicare. She will receive half my 100% disability and all of my Social security, $1,400. We managed our bills and did a reverse mortgage. No credit card debt, no mortgage payment, and in Florida no property taxes for her. Just homeowners insurance. Preparing for our future was guided by a financial planner at the Vystar Credit Union. If she goes first I lose $600 per month. But far worse, I loose my caregiver and best friend. Medicare will pay someone to come in the house to help me. Prepare now for the time you will need help. Do not wait around for the magic government fairy to care for you. Be safe and take care.
Janet Pratt Yes Please write your Senators and Congressmen. These men and women wrote a blank check to serve our country wee need to take care of our own. So many spouses and fily members give up their jobs to take care of our vets. If it wasn't for them it would cost our government a lot of money to take care of them in an institution.
Becky Jenkins Nicol No I don't agree--My father didn't receive near the care he deserved and he died because of that!!
Tony Muzio Agree I am DVA member 100 percent disable veteran thank you brother 🙏
Ron Oliver I AGREE, should have all Medical eyes Dental, if you are , service-connected disability. Free transportation, and if you are permanent total service-connected, can you take your check away
Sandi Blakney No it really depends on the kind of care that they give!
Howard Young Maybe we better start with veterans first, the va cant even give us the care we deserve.
Hannah Hendru AGREED! The VA has become discriminatory!
Marvin-Mary Frank I agree!
Lynne Whitten Absolutely !
Jon Brandt Agreed.
Luis Rivera l thanks you for sharing
Larry Myers Agree they should be on the pay roll
Heidi Bauer Absolutely!
Tony Muzio Disable veteran 🇺🇸👍
Tim Hartzell Agree......
Jamesand Michelle Wright Agree
DAVOctober 17th, 2017 at 12:56pm

What do you think?

Tim Pennington Why don’t they give that money to people who actually deserve it like the veterans and put those trouble employees on the streets...?
Muggs Monahan with all these errors I'm wondering if the vets were notified that they screwed up and since I am in WA and have many friends in the Spokane area it really pisses me off that "dozens of CT scans" were misread. Maybe we should get on the band wagon and say Veterans Lifes Matter
Larry Lenzen The VA should fire doctors that lie to Veterans because they’re too lazy to order MRIs or lab work or any other thing for the patient and then they try to bully the veteran into believing that it was his fault
Edmund Kelvin Turner No wonder Veteran can't get the disability we deserve cause the VA busy paying employees and not the Veteran who lives will never be the same.
Candace Mahoney Shepherd This is wrong on so many levels. Bad employees should not be rewarded in any way shape form or fashion. If an infraction was bad enough to warrant firing then that’s what should stand. Voluntary retirement should not even be an option. You burn you learn. This is bs.
Jim Harrelson Don't assume these "problem employees" are not whistle blowers that were actually trying to do the right thing and FIX issues at the VA, and suffered RETALIATION, HUMILIATION, and a crushed career!!! Many are vets!
Thomas Wheeler The VA has been plagued with incompetence for years and powerless to fire those that have no business serving our nations Veterans.
Susan Toombs I’m glad to see the corruption is coming to the public eye. Long overdue. We too have 2500 pages of “REDACTED” fluff on the suicide of Sgt John Toombs on the grounds of the Alvin C York VA in Murfreesboro Tennessee on 11/23/16...It’s truly sickening they think it’s OK to omit all the actual evidence of their negligence just because they think they can hide behind the government. If you want another story of extreme negligence please feel free to contact us! I’ll give you a lot more info to substantiate this story
Mike Driscoll You mean those employees who curse openly in the hallways as the complain about the “lazy”patients, the employees who scowl at me when I approach the counter of a specialty clinic with a question that interrupts their football or weekend planning conversations...those employees?
Ronald Brimmer VA's around the country are short of doctors, PA's, NP's, metal health providers,technicians, and support staff. Why not use those funds to find great quality medical personnel. I have never heard of being rewarded for doing an inadequate job. Not reporting them to medical boards is shameful in itself, why so they can mess up another persons life.
Jack Beal 😡 I can believe it. And it is a disgrace that they do this. All that money could go to help homeless Veterans instead of paying incompetent and stupid employees
Melissa Lee And it's nearly impossible to sue the VA for malpractice. You have 2 years and they have all your records. Records seem to get misplaced or deleted when you become a problem patient.
Ken Pruitt Damn, this is disgraceful! Yet another one of those sacred trusts (caring for our veterans) that has been criminally and KNOWINGLY betrayed! There should be heads rolling, and reported to any "oversight" committees, agencies, associations, etc, and not allowed to roll into another job where they can cause harm! And it sounds like many of these should lose their medical licenses!
Stephen Crowley Let us talk about the Boston Doc in one of their great hospitals that is the attending in five surgeries at once. If you want to kill the VA you are doing a great job. No institution has a monopoly on incompetence.
Ange Minns WOW, if they think this is the only issue, watch the people in charge of some of this mess on the VA congressional hearings is quite revealing as to the back and forth of some of the idiots in charge of VA. SAD! And Muggs, yes Vet's Matter....every single one of them.
Tony Silva I think there is more than that. I know of one place that has made multiple errors and it almost cost me my life.
Mayah Bennett VA whistleblowers are considered ' problem ' employees. The only reason anyone knows about the systematic problems within the VA is because the Union stood by their members and prevented them from being fired. even in the civilian world, a person gets compensated for unused vacation time when they leave.
Elizabeth Winskowski Whoa. I get getting paid your unused leave but 42000k after reading multiple cat scans wrong? That’s potentially someone’s disability money.
Jeremy Holt Not even close too the amount of issue's we should have with Secretary David Shulkin using veteran's choice too fund his wife's European trip for ten day's. All the while I requested an MRI and was denied for year's until this year a couple of months ago, and like I had speculated, this produced results, now the Va had me going through VES and this is taking longer than a regular C&P. Oh and it's migralepsy with PTSD... And when I use the word pain it's excruciatingly painful.
Leesa White Pizzo Get rid of the union at the VA hospitals . It’s incredibly difficult to get rid of any lazy employees there and they work harder trying to get out of work then just doing their job it’s a horrible place to work
Jerry Richmond This isn’t limited to the VA. Where do these poor employees come from... private practice. Where do they go when let go.... private practice. Both the VA and private practice need to keep the database updated. These docs are out there
Roe Weitmann Stallings Why should they get money for being bad performers. That is unrealistic. That money should have gone toward veterans care. Disgusting. When is our government going to learn.
Gary Graviett Not just the VA that does this-most government agencies and companies/corporations do the same. The VA has become a scapegoat for the government. Of course they make mistakes and like the rest cover it up. Grade congress using the same criteria and can them.
John Ferrucci I believe it...worked in the kitchen in SF VA. Racism BIG time I reported it. ....Wasteful.....a bunch of thieves.....When Management in general acts like ostriches with their head in the ground, not caring, just getting my paycheck, leave me alone, I didn't see that....As a Vet I just shook my head and found better employment elsewhere.....
Klaus-dieter Ihnenfeld Vets unable to get good health care should not happen! The response to incompetence should be just like in the private sector. My worry about budget concerns is if diagnosis isn't that bad, surgery may be put off rather than being preventive allowing for complications, much less pain and suffering! Can't spend benefits of you be dead!